When discussing the Israel-Arab conflict, everyone today will tell you that the two-state solution is the only resolution to end the conflict. Although this belief is presently considered the internationally accepted view, it was originally the Arab talking-point. Naive westerners today believe that the Arabs want a two-state solution as a final resolution to end the fighting, and to create a final status. This however is not what the Arabs want, nor what they say to each other, and it never has been. They don’t want peace with Israel, they want to destroy Israel. The tactics might have changed, but the goal has not! This won’t stop them from lying to naive western politicians, and slobbering western journalists however because doing so has been the most successful tactic in helping them achieve their final goal.
What the Arabs are willing to say to their own however, has always tended to be more candid.
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(IsraelNN.com) Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon Abbas Zaki says the two-state solution is his preferred approach, as it will lead to Israel’s collapse.
Speaking with Lebanese ANB Television on May 7, Zaki said that any ceasefire, or hudna, deal with Israel is not desirable. Instead, the long-time PLO member said, “we must go towards the two-state solution, a solution that even [Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmedinajad supports.”
“In my opinion,” Zaki explained, “with such a solution, Israel will collapse. Because if they get out of Jerusalem, what will be left of all their [the Jews’] talk about the Promised Land and the Chosen Nation? What will be with all the sacrifices they gave and then they are told to leave?”
The two-state solution, supported by the United States and most of the world, calls for a Palestinian Authority state in Judea and Samaria, leaving Israel barely 11 miles wide in some areas.
Zaki said that Jews and Israelis “perceive of Jerusalem as having a spiritual status. They relate to Judea and Samaria as a historic dream. If the Jews leave these places, the Zionist idea will begin to collapse of itself – and then we will move forward.”
The interview was brought to the Western eye by Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).
Zaki has made similar points before. In 2008, the former Palestinian Legislative Council member for Hevron, former Fatah operations head, and current PLO Central Council member said, “When the ideology of Israel collapses, and we take, at least, Jerusalem, the Israeli ideology will collapse in its entirety, and we will begin to progress with our own ideology, Allah willing, and drive them out of all of Palestine.” Zaki also headed the PLO Lebanon Committee and the Palestine National Liberation Army’s political commissariat.
Asked then if he believes in weapons or negotiations, Zaki replied, “The use of weapons alone will not bring results, and the use of politics without weapons will not bring results. We act on the basis of our extensive experience. We analyze our situation carefully. We know what climate leads to victory and what climate leads to suicide. We talk politics, but our principles are clear. It was our pioneering leader, Yasser Arafat, who persevered with this revolution, when empires collapsed.”
To those willing to be realistic when discussing the Arab-Israel conflict, Zaki’s statements are not surprising nor new. It has always been the goal of the Arabs (who then created the “Palestinians”) to destroy Israel, never to make peace.
They tried all out war, and failed miserably. Therefore, they changed their tactics to terrorism. Although reasonably successful on this front, it wasn’t accomplishing their ultimate goal of total destruction of the Jewish State, so they have moved on to what we could cynically call diplomacy.
Newspapers all over the world are working overtime to brand new Foreign Minister of Israel Avigdor Lieberman as a “racist”, “ultra-nationalist”, “right winger” and any other supposedly disparaging term they can dig up. They will tell you nothing about the man other than he is an evil man who dared to suggested that Israelis, including Israeli-Arabs, be required to take an oath of loyalty. What they don’t show you is why he suggested it.
Sadly, it seems that our own Government still just doesn’t get it. Just a few hours after The Jerusalem Post completed the interview below with Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, gave testimony on Capitol Hill that insists that Israel continue the failed policies of the past. Clinton stated that “For Israel to get the kind of strong support it is looking for vis-a-vis Iran, it can’t stay on the sidelines with respect to the Palestinians and the peace efforts. They go hand in hand.”
Israel however has never even hinted that it has any desire to stall peace-making efforts with the so-called Palestinians. When asked about this, Lieberman stated that his government instead, “intends to take the initiative” [on peace efforts].
Hillary Clinton knows this. But what she really means when she says “peace efforts” is that Israel must surrender to the Phakestinians, follow the same failed policies of the last 60 plus years, and continue to surrender their sovereignty and security in return for nothing but empty promises. This however is something that Lieberman, and Netanyahu, (for now it seems) won’t do.
Below are segments from this interview with Avigdor Lieberman. Hear him in his own words.
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Can we start with the issue of two states for two peoples. Wasn’t the international basis for the establishment of Israel that there be a Jewish entity alongside an Arab entity? Is your government now departing from this paradigm or is the principle of two states still the applicable one?
First of all, we must understand why the Palestinian issue is deadlocked, because since 1993 we really made every effort. We had very dovish governments. We can start with Ehud Barak at Camp David, who made a very generous offer to [Yasser] Arafat and he rejected it. As for the Ariel Sharon government, we undertook an insane process called disengagement. We transferred thousands of Jews from the Gaza Strip. We evacuated tens of flowering settlements and we received in return Hamas and Kassam rockets. The last government of Ehud Olmert is the same. From what I saw in the papers, he really made a very very generous offer to Abu Mazen. And the same thing happened: Abu Mazen rejected it.
Were there elements that Olmert offered that were surprising to you?
Of course. I was shocked, as was everybody.
But more than this offer, more important at the end of the day: what was the final result? This was a very dovish government – without Lieberman, without Netanyahu. It was Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni. And the result? The Second Lebanon War, the operation in Gaza, severed diplomatic relations with Mauritania and Qatar, our soldier Gilad Schalit still in captivity. And we cannot move forward without understanding why.
I know that all of us know some very popular slogans – land for peace, two-state solutions. It would be very easy to win over public opinion or the mass media by talking in slogans. But this is not election time. We’re not during the campaign. We want to bring real results.
Israel has proved its good intentions, our desire for peace. Since 1978, we gave up territories three times larger than Israel. We invested billions of shekels in the Palestinian Authority. We paid a very heavy price. Thousands of our citizens were killed in terrorist acts. What more can we do?
Without understanding the real reasons for this long-standing conflict, we cannot move forward. That’s my view.
Over the last two weeks I’ve had many conversations with my colleagues
around the world. Just today, I saw the political adviser to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the Chinese foreign minister and the Czech prime
minister. And everybody, you know, speaks with you like you’re in a campaign: Occupation, settlements, settlers…
You mean they speak in slogans?
Yes, slogans. Settlements, outposts. And I ask only one thing: What was the situation before 1967, before we established a single settlement. What was before ’48 and ’67? Was it peace, was it a heaven here?
It was the same: friction, terrorism, bloodshed. The PLO and Fatah were established before ’67 and the Arab countries controlled Judea and Samaria and the Gaza Strip for 19 years, from ’48 to ’67. Nobody spoke during this time about the Palestinian state. And even before the establishment of the state of Israel, it was the same: friction, tension, terror, riots, pogroms. People try to simplify the situation with these formulas – land for peace, two-state solution. It’s a lot more complicated.
You don’t need to persuade this newspaper not to speak to you in slogans, but nonetheless, is it not the case that for our sake, to keep a Jewish, democratic Israel, we have to find some way to separate from the Palestinians? And doesn’t that mean, in principle at least, statehood? I understand the prime minister’s concerns about what statehood brings with it – giving one the right to arm and to pose a threat. But what then is the ultimate goal here vis-a-vis the Palestinians?
We must clarify our position. The real reason [for the deadlock with the Palestinians] is not occupation, not settlements and not settlers. This conflict is really a very deep conflict. It started like other national conflicts. Today it’s a more religious conflict. Today you have the influence of some non-rational players, like Al-Qaida. What is Hamas and Islamic Jihad? It’s Iran by proxy.
To resolve this conflict, it is not enough to repeat slogans. I don’t see any short way for any comprehensive solutions.
From my point of view, we’re interested in three things. First of all, as Israeli citizens, the most important thing is security. I don’t want to see, every day, every morning, Palestinian missiles striking Sderot.
Second, what is most important for the Palestinians? I think it’s also very clear – the economy. Now I say as a settler, we at Nokdim are the biggest employer in our area. I have met many times with Palestinians from the villages around us, who really strongly do not believe in any political process, in peace processes – not in summits, not in conferences, not in declarations…
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Is our government going to say to the international community and the Americans in particular, ‘We’re not even going to start trying to make progress with the Palestinians until you stop Iran?
No, no, no, no, no.
That’s the impression that’s sometimes being created.
No, we must start with the Palestinian issues because it’s our interest to resolve this problem. But there should be no illusions. To achieve an agreement, to achieve an end of conflict, with no more bloodshed, no more terror, no more claims – that’s impossible until Iran [is addressed], one of the biggest players in our arena.
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You say you don’t foresee a comprehensive solution in the near future, but we’re already hearing from the new American president that this has been going on for long enough.
Annapolis was the wrong approach. With the Road Map, you can see some logical path: First of all, [for the PA to] dismantle terrorist organizations, collect illegal weapons, establish a justice system and establish normal state institutions. You have three stages in the Road Map, with 48-49 paragraphs. Only the last stage, the last paragraphs, deal with negotiations for the permanent solution. So, [under Annapolis,] to jump straight to the last paragraph and to concede on all of the Palestinian commitments to fight terror – it’s a very strange approach.
Now in our policy review, it’s a new government and we need time. I’m not ready for someone to stand with a stopwatch and say, ‘What’s happening, what’s happening?’ I talked with [President Obama’s special envoy George] Mitchell, and he well understood our problems.
The people of Israel made their decision [in the elections] and this is really the right time to examine new ideas, new approaches, new visions. We’re trying to formulate this new approach now.
Although I do not agree completely with everything Liberman says in his interview, I believe that the Netanyahu government is on the right track by trying something different. Despite what the World media wish for you to believe, Liberman is hardly an “extremist”, nor a “ultra-nationalist”. His only sin here is that he questions the prevailing so-called wisdom, of blaming the conflict on Israel not giving enough to the Arabs. The problem however is that the media is wrong, and Liberman is right. The main stumbling block with the Arab-Israeli conflict has been the World’s insistance that we continue the same failed policies. Sadly, from the words of Secretary of State Clinton, it seems that the U.S. still doesn’t get it, and I am afraid that with an Obama Administration we never will. Despite history, they wish to continue the “all for nothing from Israel” policies that have caused the stalemate Israel and the Arabs are in today.
For the sake of everyone involved, I pray for the peace of Israel, and that our leaders finally get it!
Once again, the “moderate” P.A. issues another death threat to their people against selling land to Jews. This isn’t the first time either, this is a long standing P.A. policy. Notice that this Fatwa and law is against all Jews; not “Zionists”, or “Israelis”, or IDF, blah,blah, blah….nope…..it is against ALL Jews! Where are the condemnations for such blatant Anti-semitism, and actions against harmony from the usual “peace” groups, and “civil-Rights” Organizations on this?
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The Palestinian Authority has issued yet another warning to Palestinians against selling their homes or properties to Jews, saying those who violate the order would be accused of “high treason” – a charge that carries the death penalty.
The latest warning was issued on Wednesday by the Chief [Islamic] Judge of the Palestinian Authority, Sheikh Tayseer Rajab Tamimi, who reminded the Palestinians of an existing fatwa [religious decree] than bans them from selling property to Jews.
Sheikh Tamimi’s warning came in response to reports that Jewish businessmen from the US had purchased 20 dunams of land from Palestinians on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.
Warning the Palestinians against engaging in “suspicious real estate deeds,” the religious leader said that according to Islamic teachings it was a “grave sin” to sell houses and lands to Jews.
He said that the ban also applies to real estate agents or middlemen who are involved in such transactions.
He warned that anyone who ignores the warning would be punished in accordance with Islamic teachings and would also be ostracized by his community and family.
Sheikh Tamimi also issued a ban on renting out property to Jewish individuals and organizations under the pretext that they would spread moral, political and security corruption there.
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“The city of Jerusalem is the religious, political and spiritual capital of the Palestinians,” he said. “The Jews have no rights in Jerusalem. This is an occupied city like the rest of the territories that were occupied in 1967.”
Scores of Palestinians have been murdered over the past three decades for allegedly selling their property to Jews or for acting as intermediaries in real estate deeds involving Jews.
Several fatwas issued by PA Islamic clerics have ruled that any Palestinian who sells his property to Jews would face the death sentence.
Fatah legislator Hatem Abdel Kader, who also serves as PA Prime Minister Salaam Fayad’s adviser on Jerusalem affairs, told The Jerusalem Post that the new-old ban was needed to thwart attempts by the new right-wing government in Israel to take control over more lands in the Arab neighborhoods of the city.
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I ask you then….who exactly in this Conflict are the “racist”, “ultra-nationalists”? Funny, (not!) how they don’t use those terms when describing the Phakestinians, or other Arabs, even when their behavior is worse!
Per Carl In Jerusalem:
“By the way, unfortunately, these threats are not a joke. Recall the case of MuhammedAbual-Hawa (three links), who was murdered in April 2006 for selling land to Jews in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Abu Tor. And of course that explains why when they are discovered selling land to Jews, ‘Palestinians’ will inevitably deny it (in collaboration with Israeli ‘peace groups’ of course) as was the case with Shalom House in Hebron from which the Jewish residents were ultimately expelled in December 2008.
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(IsraelNN.com) Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon Abbas Zaki says the two-state solution is his preferred approach, as it will lead to Israel’s collapse.
